ECM: You have just finished another European tour. Which races did you take part in and what were your results?
DK: This year I went to Dubai to take part in the FEI/UAE World Cup - the most favoured race where only the top [endurance] riders in the world are qualified. I finished in 20th place on Eben Armor. After that I went to Spain with Armor and won the Jerez 182 km. I rode Armor for the third time in the European Open Championship. I got 5th, which is quite good and I also got the 2nd best condition prize for her. (The winner was the best conditioned.) That's it for Eben Armor this year.

I also rode Erhelle du Melay in the Campagnelesguines 130 k in France where we were 3rd. After the European Open I won three races in a row - The IV Raid International Elvas Badajoz 2 x 100 km in Spain with Degma, the Huelgoat 130 km in France with Erhelle du Melay and the Montcuq 2 x 100 km also in France with Gusti de l'Aigoual.

ECM: Which one is your No. 1 horse?
DK: Eben Armor is my No. 1 horse now. I'm looking for that horse to be a top horse next year.

ECM: How old is it?
DK: He's a 9-year-old French Arabian. 97% pure Arab

ECM: At what age do endurance horses peak?
DK: Around 10 to 13 years old.

ECM: Which was your best race this year?
DK: The race I had in Montcuq, I had a very good race. I had a very fast speed with Gusti de l'Aigoual. This is probably my second best horse. The speed of 18.597 km/h was the fastest ever for that race, which is considered a very difficult race in France because of the mountainous terrain and the 200 km distance over two days.

ECM: What are your plans for the rest of the year?
DK: I have three more races for the rest of this year. Tomorrow night I am leaving for Brazil to take part in a Cat. A 140 km race, what they call the Race of Champions at Pedeira, near Sao Paolo on 16th November. Then I'll be riding in another 200 km race at Santa Susanna near Barcelona on 7th and 8th of December. Depending on the flight schedule I'll also do another race near Sydney on 15th December.

[Ed's Note: Dato' Kamaruddin did not manage to complete the race in Brazil]

ECM: What are your objectives for 2002?
DK: I have ten horses now. Nine in France and one in Australia. Not counting the two I have in Malaysia. Most of these horses as you can see are top performers except two horses that I have not raced yet. So I'm planning that I'm not going to race as often the whole year through but I'm going to pick up specific races. Meaning I'll pick on the major races for my good horses. The new ones I'll bring through in the other months in other races. So I'll be having most of the time next year on my own horses rather than leasing from other people. When you lease you don't know what the horses are like. You take a chance. It's only one horse that I won on that was leased. The others that I won on were my own horses. With the leased horse that I won on I had ridden it earlier and had a third placing, so I knew what it could do and how to ride it.

For next year it will be all my own horses. So I'll know what I can do and what my horses can do. Therefore I am more definite in my program. So I will enter as many [good] races as possible, targeting the World Cup and the World Equestrian Games.

I hope too that I could bring a team to the World Equestrian Games.

ECM: When Equestrian.Com.My last interviewed you in April this year, you said your ultimate goals were the World Championships and to become No. 1. It looks like you have an insurmountable lead in the FEI World Endurance Rankings and will end the year as No. 1, so you have achieved this already. What is your lifetime ambition now?
DK: Yes, I've done what I wanted to do already, in a surprisingly short time, which was to become No. 1. So I have achieved that. Now after achieving that I want to go on and see how long I can last as No. 1. Also I have a chance to establish a record as the highest possible number of points scored in a calendar year. I want to make it difficult for people to break my record. So I'm pushing now to push up my points, to go as much as I can this year. In future years it will be hard for people to match my record

ECM: There's a real possibility that the 2008 Beijing Olympic Games will include endurance.
DK: It could be an exhibition sport at the 2004 Athens Olympics. 2008…Inshallah I'll still be strong.

ECM: How old will you be then?
DK: I'm fifty-six now, so I'll be sixty-three in 2008. According to my doctors I'm still only 30 years old now.

ECM: I heard you were the fittest of the Malaysian Equestrian Team at the SEA Games.
DK: [laughing] Yah.

ECM: When you found out you had become No. 1 in the world, what did you do?
DK: When I had found out I had become No. 1, I immediately sent faxes to Y.A.B. Prime Minister and Y.B. Minister of Sport and my sponsors. I wanted to inform the people who had really supported me.

ECM: What do you get if you finish the year at No. 1?
DK: There is prize-money for me and my trainers. I don't know how much, but it is quite a sum. [ECM has since ascertained that it is US$25,000]

ECM: Have things changed by you being No. 1 in the world?
DK: I don't have the pressure internationally because people there are sporting. They see you they congratulate you, they give me nicknames [Pikatchu, Le Centaure du Malaysie], they call me names…in good spirits. I don't feel the pressure.

I see the people of Malaysia are very responsive to this sport. Everybody is coming to talk to me about the sport. That's a very good sign. Except for some negative elements that I'd rather not mention. Most of the people are very happy that Malaysia has put up a sportsman in the No. 1 position and are supportive of it. So it's good for the sport and I feel happy about that, that people are looking at this sport differently than before. Before the SEA Games it was totally different. After the SEA Games people have more time for equestrian things. Now there is a feeling that we can do it. Malaysia boleh! Last time they felt it was just elite or it was far away, it's a dream.

Who would think there is a No. 1 in equestrian in the world from Malaysia? Becoming the No. 1 so soon after supported the achievements of equestrian sports in the SEA Games. The good news that we are top in ASEAN countries, we have potential riders to be top in Asia as well as the forthcoming World Cup Jumping Finals and World Dressage Challenge and a top rider in endurance. So it comes in a package.

ECM: Do you have any sponsors? If so, who are they and how do they support you?
DK: I don't have sponsors that are fixed to me like they have signed a contract. I'm not fortunate enough to have that for the time being. Hopefully I should have a sponsor who signs up. My current sponsors are sponsoring me on an ad hoc basis. I have a few sponsors who would like to remain anonymous, so I can't mention any names yet until I have something official.

I wouldn't be able to accomplish what I did if I didn't have these sponsors.

ECM: You have said that your main objectives next year are the World Cup and the World Equestrian Games. You finished 5th in the European Open, racing against the best in the world. To become World Champion you would have to beat the Makthoums.
DK: Not necessarily. There are a lot of other good riders in the world. ECM: The Makhthoum's finished 1st and 2nd in the European Open this year? DK: Not exactly the toughest but they had the best horses in those games. I had a good horse but I did not wish to push my horse and risk it all. When you go all out, you take more risks. During the race I noticed that Sheikh Rashid's horse was in better condition than mine so I didn't chase him. I just followed. Sheikh Hamdan had also a very good horse and he was chasing. The third rider was going all out. For that reason that they were not selected for the best conditioned horse. I conserved my horse and we got the 2nd best condition prize.

Call it fate or whatever, this horse that was the winner was offered to me in Australia to be purchased. But I didn't have the money at that time. I didn't have the money then, even though I thought it was cheap.

But you know, today that's the best horse. Next year, maybe another horse. You never know.

ECM: You are confident of your horses.
DK: Yes, I'm confident because I've been conservative with them. They are gaining strength and all that. To be frank I have three or four horses that are world class. You look at the average speed that my horses have done go and you compare this to the Sheikhs. In the Middle East their races are usually run at a faster speed over a flat area. In a mountainous area like Montcuq you can't do the same speed but it shows I'm not far away from the best times of the world.

My horses are still moving up. They're not moving down. You can see from their records, they are getting faster, even over longer distances. They are improving.

ECM: Do you think there is a chance to form a Malaysian team at the World Equestrian Games next year?
DK: That's one of my dreams, to bring a team to the World Championships as we did before. But we need dedicated, disciplined riders to achieve this target. They have to be ready to work hard. It's not just a chance to go overseas.

ECM: What about horses?
DK: Well, firstly they have to qualify on the European circuit, maybe one or two qualifying races and for experience over that distance. The horses could be leased. You see, when it comes to international representative races, there are only six horses that can go in one team for any country. Any one country has more than six horses. So you can lease from them if you make prior arrangements, because you can't lease at the last minute.

ECM: But you are not going to get their best six.
DK: Well, their second best six, any of their top ten horses can strike anywhere at the right time. I can name six good horses from my string that could mount a team. We need at least four to make a team. Of course the training costs have to be covered.

ECM: Right now are people waiting for you to offer them horses or are they making their own arrangements?
DK: Well, they have to be positively taking their qualifications….
ECM: Do you see them doing that? Do you see people working at it right now?
DK: I'm sad to say, Malaysians have a different attitude. They wait for things to happen. I can't just lend the horses. I have got to see their standards….

I would lend my horse to you, Peter, because I know you can handle the horse. But you don't lend your horse to somebody who can't. You know the polo players have a saying, "You can talk to my wife while I play polo, but you can't ride my polo pony." The same thing here. I've got ten lovely horses that I love, like my children. Now would you give your children? Not just to anyone. You must trust them. If they don't come up to my standard then I would say I'm sorry.

ECM: To reach your standard might be very "susah-lah" (difficult.)
DK: [Laughing] Not my personal standard, the standards that I set for them. I mean you can't expect to drive a racing car if you don't pass your driving test first.

ECM: What would they have to do then, between now and next year?
DK: In the first place, they should go to Europe. It's much easier to race there than in Australia or elsewhere.
ECM: Why is that?
DK: Because there are more people who supports horses. There are also more crew points, there is more care taken. It is logistically much easier. Everything is much easier there and everybody knows what they are doing. So it is easy to get to a 130 km race, which is good enough to qualify for the World Cup. But they must get experience of riding 160 km. The World Cup is 160 km. It's easy to qualify at 130 km. But what do you do in the last 30 km? You must get experience.

It took me two years, from 1998 to last year to learn how to win. You can't take short cuts. '98 I started. '99 I raced for experience. In 2000 I started by winning one race and getting more experience. And then this year I've got the experience of winning although earlier in the year I was experimenting with leasing horses. By the end of the year I knew which horses to ride and now I'm winning. It took me that time - 3 years to be able to be in a winning position at the top level of competition.

Now if you are going to learn to ride at home, like you are learning football here, and you are going to play football in England or in Europe, you have a lot to learn.

ECM: What more can be done to encourage endurance rides in this part of the world?
DK: We have to get more people to participate in this sport and get more horses so that we can have more races. With more people and more horses we get more races and the sport can become competitive. Automatically the standard gets higher. People will want to win and they keep better horses.

ECM: Do you see that it can be a really solid circuit in this part of the world?
DK: As shown by the SEA games, we get a response even from a poor country like Myanmar. We just had an Indian rider yesterday (Major P.P. Singh in the TNB 80 km Enduro Race.) They have about 50 riders in India, and they need to race. We are waiting for Thailand and Singapore to participate. Maybe Philippines. They are all horse countries. If we have these groups coming in…. China is interested because they have got horse people. Mongolia is knocking on the door now because they have got riders. So many countries are picking up this sport very fast. The Arab countries are participating from the Emirates to Morocco. In the last European Cup we had a Tunisian team participating.

It's something that we have to look at. We can do it from here. We can have an Asian group. Or we can have an Asean-Australian group. But we must have the number of horses.

ECM: Do you think it is possible to do it from here?
DK: Yes, you can, but you must have the number of horses.

ECM: Is there a limit of how many races a horse can do per year? DK: A horse has to have enough time to recover after a big race. Just like you can't run a marathon every month. You've got to recover first. After a race I rest my horse for a month to six weeks out in a paddock. Total rest. Over here unfortunately we don't have big enough paddocks, so we still work them but at a walk or whatever. But in Europe it is out in a paddock. The horse fattens up and we rebuild again. That probably takes another 1-½ months before I can race it again. So in total I can race my horses say maximum 3 times a year.

ECM: How do you think it can be done to get more horses, more races, more participants here?
DK: I have established this Endurance Society (MERS - Malaysian Endurance Riding Society) to encourage people who are not in clubs to ride in races. They could be in any town, any village, they can own a horse and join the sport for a cheap subscription. They don't have to buy all this fancy gear. All they need to do is ride. Of course when they come and race they have to wear a hard hat. That's normal. But they don't need to buy expensive gear, nor do they have to join a club with a subscription. So we try to keep their costs as low as possible for any rider. If they are in a village they can look after the horse themselves, they don't have to pay grooms and all that. Feeding, they can always organise cheap feeding. Even if they are not in clubs, in their own stables, we try to encourage the numbers.

So the next thing is to help people to buy horses. I have written a paper asking to the Equine Council or to the Tote Board to have a fund where our members can go to loan money to buy horses. They must pay back so that the money can loaned to other riders later on. We have submitted this application, so hopefully….

It makes it easier for riders to buy horses. I don't believe in the equine council or the EAM or the NSC giving horses to people. They don't appreciate it. They don't appreciate it when they compete. After that they forget it. Now if you buy your horse you have to pay back the money that you borrowed, then you have to take care of your horse.

ECM: What's your normal training program?
DK: It's not so important to me if I ride or not. I have a lot of riding mileage already, far more than most riders. So I ride a bicycle or I jog, an hour to 1 ½ hrs. That covers 10 km. of jogging, bicycle more than that. I have participated in properly organised 10 km races in Malaysia.

I would go in the afternoon for more exercise. I used to play golf, but that is not enough. I go to the gym for 2 to 2 ½ hrs everyday, depending on the intensity of my training. I sleep early, I don't drink, I don't smoke, and I don't go to disco or whatever. So I put down the pleasures of life to go for my target. I have a good health. I go for checks every six months at IGH. So I know I'm healthy. I can do my work. Besides doing my office work and family life, I have to do this exercise, jog or cycle or gym everyday. I used to swim before but it takes too much time to go home and change. Now when I cycle sometimes you can see me in my office in my cycling gear.

I'm dedicated enough. If you want to achieve something you have to work for it. I have to sacrifice. You have to have the motivation, the drive. You have to motivate yourself. You can't get bored.

ECM: What advice would you give to riders in this part of the world?
DK: It is to put your best foot forward. Pull up your socks. Be a thinking sportsman. Be dedicated. Show trust in yourself. You must trust that you can do the job. If you have one doubt you are gone.

Peter, I have to tell myself all the time "You can do it, you can do it." Even my people don't believe. But I tell myself all the time. And I never doubt myself that I cannot win. I say I can win. Sometimes in a race it is so difficult. The last race (Montcuq 2 x 100 km) it's so difficult. 140 horses started, so many riders. Halfway through in the mountain phase, I knew I could win. I could see the opening. When you are positive you will see the opportunities, the openings that you have to take at that time to win.

If you want to be a top rider, you must have that positive thinking. Trust in your ability, trust in your horse. Learn to study your opposition - whether they are weak or if they are stronger than you. Make your moves. Be a thinking rider, with dedication, work diligently. Of course we must have support. But you can't get support unless you prove your ability.

ECM: You finished 3rd in yesterday's 80 km TNB Enduro Classic race. What happened?
DK: (laughs…long pause) When you go into a competition you ride the race according to the information given out by the officials or by the organization. So I was in the leading group of 7 riders. We came to certain places we didn't see any signs, we didn't know where to go, we got lost or whatever, we got misguided, we asked the stewards and we follow what he says. Stopping to ask questions you lose a lot of time in races. The longer the horse stays in the hot sun, he gets tired quickly. In such a race you must finish quickly so that the horse doesn't stay so long in the hot sun, because it is humid. The humidity is so high.

ECM: How much time was lost? DK: 40 minutes in the second phase. In the first phase most of us, my group of riders lost about 7 km. We override by 7 km. My target speed was 4 minutes per km. in the 1st phase. So you can work it out.

In the second phase, most dropped out. I went on. I was leading a pack, which was left 20 minutes behind me. I come to a place where I have no direction, no signs. So I went back to the nearest steward, which was about 500 m away. I asked him for the direction. No direction. The steward could guide me. I didn't want to get lost or I would lose time or get eliminated. We are not allowed to have handphones so I could not call. We had to get someone to call the President of the Ground Jury. I said, "Look I'm here, what shall I do?" We wasted our time there. It was 40 minutes later, that's when the ground jury came and showed me which way to go.

ECM: So in total you lost 40 minutes there and approximately 24 minutes in the 1st phase, so you lost more than one hour. In the race classification, how far behind were you? DK: Not more than ten minutes behind the winner [Ed's note: Datuk Kamaruddin finished 8 minutes and 8 seconds behind the winner, L/Kpl Norhisham Idris of Polis DiRaja Malaysia, who were racing on their "home ground."]

ECM: You didn't protest?
DK: I didn't protest.
ECM: Why not?
DK: Well, according to what they organise, so whatever they do, I would say it shows your ability to manage, your ability to organise.

I am a sportsman, I am a true sportsman, Peter. I make my comment, I reported to the President of the Ground Jury. I spoke to the Technical Delegate, so it's up to them to decide. I'm not a crybaby. And I'm not embarrassed if I don't win. You beat me, I beat you, so what. We've been doing that all the years in competition. I lost to you in ['83] SEA Games, I beat you in [Asian Showjumping in] Japan, we've been meeting each other all over, polo I beat you, you beat me. Races the same thing. So what's that to me?

I'm not unhappy that I did not get 1st place in the race. But I would be much happier if the organisation was more detailed. The only embarrassment to me is not losing, but having the foreigners that were competing with us and we cannot show that we are good organisers.

ECM: There was some controversy about your SEA Games win, with protest by Indonesia. Would you care to comment on this? DK: This thing was brought to the FEI. They have accepted my result because normally I did the same thing in Spain where you present your horse at the required time and even if your horse is slightly over, you are allowed to go through. I've got a win in Europe with the same type of thing. If I had the vet card here I could show you. It is the practice in Europe.

ECM: One of the allegations that were made was about a Malaysian team car following on the course, between horses?
DK: What's the concern? We had no communication with the driver. Now you can say there is aid if there is communication between the car and yourself.

ECM: Did you know about this car?
DK: I don't even know. There was a pack of riders with me. About three riders. We don't know about any cars behind us. Because I think there is part of the road, which are for both horse and transport. Like I say again, there are stewards on the road. We follow the stewards. If the steward sees the car then they should stop the car. If the steward allows the car to go that means it is for a purpose, because the road is to be used by other vehicles.

I did not get any support along the way. Now in Europe and in other parts of the world, we are allowed support from the car. I have pictures where in Emirates or in Europe where people can get drinks from the car. That's allowed.

ECM: FEI races as well?
DK: Yah, yah, I have pictures of that. There are no complaints. What does it do? You see, the main here, Peter, is kindness to animals. It is open. Everybody can do that.

If you know the rules you can do things. If you don't know, you get fined. That's basic. In any sport you must know the rules. So we have to educate out riders here and our officials to learn the rules. Everybody must have a rulebook, and read it. Then we discuss the rules for the interpretation. If we are wrong then we invite the foreign people, the official delegate to give the right interpretation of the rules. So if they give their interpretation then it should be their interpretation. If everybody learns that, Peter, then we have a good sport.

ECM: Dato' Thank you very much for this interview, for your time. Good luck in your races. I hope you finish the year as No. 1.

PROFILE: Dato' Kamaruddin Abdul Ghani Nicknames: Le Centaure du Malaisie, Pikatchou, Awang Born: 16 May 1945 Where: Pekan, Pahang, Malaysia Marital Status: Married Children: Two daughters - Ellina and Nazira Favourite Food: Any Malaysian food! Favourite Drink: Teh Tarik Favourite Music: R & B Favourite Horse: Difficult to say. I treat them all just the same. All are like my children e-mail address: dato_Kamaruddin@hotmail.com